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Indybay Feature
Nazis Run Scared Out of Sacramento
nearly 50 anti-racists chased the Nazis from the capitol earlier today
The anti-nazi rally was initially broken up by State Capitol CHP after they declared the gathering to be illegal, and then detained 3 protesters, claiming they needed a permit to be on capitol grounds. The crowd ended up gathering on the sidewalk, and eventually marched to the West Steps, where Nazis were nowhere to be seen. It turns out they were scared to show their faces. A group of 6 Nazis were congregating at the south end of the capitol, and the anti-racist march made its way over.
After a short standoff, the CHP were heard telling the Nazis to leave, and that 'there was only so much they can do', seeing as the crowd was ready to tear them to shreds. The Nazis tucked their tails and took off in their aqua colored Toyota Tercel liscence plate 3EME340 and ran scared.
We are extremely happy that so many people showed up on such short notice to oppose the Nazis. Nazis are not welcome and will never be welcome in Sacramento. Wherever Nazis try to preach their hateful message, we will be there to confront and forcibly remove them.
On a related note, a group of vigilante snitches called the Guardian Angels were there to act as the eyes and ears of the cops. They made false reports to the police about the activities of the counter-protesters. Remember, snitches are snitches and it's worse when they're protecting the Nazis with the full support of the cops.
After a short standoff, the CHP were heard telling the Nazis to leave, and that 'there was only so much they can do', seeing as the crowd was ready to tear them to shreds. The Nazis tucked their tails and took off in their aqua colored Toyota Tercel liscence plate 3EME340 and ran scared.
We are extremely happy that so many people showed up on such short notice to oppose the Nazis. Nazis are not welcome and will never be welcome in Sacramento. Wherever Nazis try to preach their hateful message, we will be there to confront and forcibly remove them.
On a related note, a group of vigilante snitches called the Guardian Angels were there to act as the eyes and ears of the cops. They made false reports to the police about the activities of the counter-protesters. Remember, snitches are snitches and it's worse when they're protecting the Nazis with the full support of the cops.
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so we should kick the GA out of sacramento too.
Everybody disagrees with the Nazi's. I cannot even believe people would use Hitler as their icon. This shows the obvious hate and rebellious attitude of these racist people.
When we, as citizens who disagree, start violence and intimidation against these people we hinder our own self liberties. By advocating such behavior we have become nothing better than the Nazi's we are aggressing. Are we a nation of violence where the majority rule with assault? Should the mob against the Nazi's be legal recourse?
Let these people have their say. It will sound just like it is. You cannot hide the truth and these racists will not be able to hide the truth from the masses. They will look just like the uneducated racists they have become.
When we, as citizens who disagree, start violence and intimidation against these people we hinder our own self liberties. By advocating such behavior we have become nothing better than the Nazi's we are aggressing. Are we a nation of violence where the majority rule with assault? Should the mob against the Nazi's be legal recourse?
Let these people have their say. It will sound just like it is. You cannot hide the truth and these racists will not be able to hide the truth from the masses. They will look just like the uneducated racists they have become.
stupid fucking privledged ass liberal. you probably dont have to deal with their hate crimes against POC, people who dont confine them selves to gender roles, people who dont have wimpy ass capitalist politics like your self, people who decide to express them selves threw their atire. As if preaching the enslavement of me and my family and the murder of most my friends and their families is "fair and 'democratic'"
Everybody disagrees with the Nazi's. I cannot even believe people would use Hitler as their icon. This shows the obvious hate and rebellious attitude of these racist people.
1. When we, as citizens who disagree, start violence and intimidation against these people we hinder our own self liberties. By advocating such behavior we have become nothing better than the Nazi's we are aggressing.
Rebuttal: we protect the liberties of other who have neither the courage or the voice to express their outrage. the liberals would never think of confronting a nazi, hell, most of them willingly buy and wear "World Can'T Wait" buttons and placards even after they are told the money goes directly to the RCP. if they will not help defend our communties from racist infiltation by nazi thugs (hahahaha, they ran like cowards) and the pigs are pigs and seem useless for nothing other than harrassing the poor then it is incumbent upon each one of us to stop them ourselves. we will defend our communities.
Are we a nation of violence where the majority rule with assault?
Rebuttal: yes, yes we are. have you taken an american history class? the indigenous people's of this country are STILL being oppressed by the ruling class, i.e. the democrats and repugnants.
And when in the history of the planet have the anarchists ever held a majority in any state? never, we too have always been the oppressed minority.
Should the mob against the Nazi's be legal recourse?
Rebuttal: if the nazi's want to come to our cities, our communites and espouse their hate of everything not hetero-white than the people need to rise up and make sure they leave the area, safely.
Let these people have their say. It will sound just like it is. You cannot hide the truth and these racists will not be able to hide the truth from the masses. They will look just like the uneducated racists they have become.
thr german nazi party looked like a bunch of educated anti-semites at first too.
1. When we, as citizens who disagree, start violence and intimidation against these people we hinder our own self liberties. By advocating such behavior we have become nothing better than the Nazi's we are aggressing.
Rebuttal: we protect the liberties of other who have neither the courage or the voice to express their outrage. the liberals would never think of confronting a nazi, hell, most of them willingly buy and wear "World Can'T Wait" buttons and placards even after they are told the money goes directly to the RCP. if they will not help defend our communties from racist infiltation by nazi thugs (hahahaha, they ran like cowards) and the pigs are pigs and seem useless for nothing other than harrassing the poor then it is incumbent upon each one of us to stop them ourselves. we will defend our communities.
Are we a nation of violence where the majority rule with assault?
Rebuttal: yes, yes we are. have you taken an american history class? the indigenous people's of this country are STILL being oppressed by the ruling class, i.e. the democrats and repugnants.
And when in the history of the planet have the anarchists ever held a majority in any state? never, we too have always been the oppressed minority.
Should the mob against the Nazi's be legal recourse?
Rebuttal: if the nazi's want to come to our cities, our communites and espouse their hate of everything not hetero-white than the people need to rise up and make sure they leave the area, safely.
Let these people have their say. It will sound just like it is. You cannot hide the truth and these racists will not be able to hide the truth from the masses. They will look just like the uneducated racists they have become.
thr german nazi party looked like a bunch of educated anti-semites at first too.
"Everybody disagrees with the Nazi's. I cannot even believe people would use Hitler as their icon. This shows the obvious hate and rebellious attitude of these racist people." -
Racism exists as a fundamental of capitalist society. Class society, and the private ownership of the means of production promots race divisions, (aka racism), as a means of dividing the working class against itself. Sometimes this can take the form of law, as with aparthied, or sometimes it can just be a manifistation in society.
Under this context, it is important to realize that within a racist society, there is always the opportunity for openly fascist groups to gain a foot hold within groups of people, that would other wise be swayed towards a politics and praxis based around class.
"When we, as citizens who disagree, start violence and intimidation against these people we hinder our own self liberties." -
The reason we are "citizens" of this country is because of violence, (remember that whole revolution against the British thing?) If you're going to advocate non-violence, or pacifism as a tactic against nazis, say so, but by simply stating that because we are "americans", we should not use violence, when in reality, this country was founded on violence, and continues to exist because of massive amounts of violence.
Furthermore, I fail to see how violence or intimidation were even used by the protestors, based on the information given. Seems like a protest happened, and the police got the nazis out of the area so fast, that no form of interaction happened.
Also, how are normal, everyday people standing up for themselves against fascists, a hindering to our civil liberties. When working people decide to take matters into their own hands, to have no faith other than their own ability, and to control their own struggles, this leads to greater freedom, not a reduction of it.
"By advocating such behavior we have become nothing better than the Nazi's we are aggressing. Are we a nation of violence where the majority rule with assault? Should the mob against the Nazi's be legal recourse?" -
Again, what behavior was advocated? Protesting? Standing up to nazis? What behavior do you think would have been better? Seems like a fine group of people made a good showing, and got the nazis to leave, ...and you did what?
"Let these people have their say. It will sound just like it is. You cannot hide the truth and these racists will not be able to hide the truth from the masses. They will look just like the uneducated racists they have become." -
Not all racists are uneducated. And they seem to be smart enough to at least mobilize lots of people, aka the minutemen movement, and also create tones of money in revenue everyyear, aka the white power music scene. Some of us here aren't going to sit around while synogoges are bombed, and people are pulled on ropes behind trucks.
-Doug
CV IMC Editor
Racism exists as a fundamental of capitalist society. Class society, and the private ownership of the means of production promots race divisions, (aka racism), as a means of dividing the working class against itself. Sometimes this can take the form of law, as with aparthied, or sometimes it can just be a manifistation in society.
Under this context, it is important to realize that within a racist society, there is always the opportunity for openly fascist groups to gain a foot hold within groups of people, that would other wise be swayed towards a politics and praxis based around class.
"When we, as citizens who disagree, start violence and intimidation against these people we hinder our own self liberties." -
The reason we are "citizens" of this country is because of violence, (remember that whole revolution against the British thing?) If you're going to advocate non-violence, or pacifism as a tactic against nazis, say so, but by simply stating that because we are "americans", we should not use violence, when in reality, this country was founded on violence, and continues to exist because of massive amounts of violence.
Furthermore, I fail to see how violence or intimidation were even used by the protestors, based on the information given. Seems like a protest happened, and the police got the nazis out of the area so fast, that no form of interaction happened.
Also, how are normal, everyday people standing up for themselves against fascists, a hindering to our civil liberties. When working people decide to take matters into their own hands, to have no faith other than their own ability, and to control their own struggles, this leads to greater freedom, not a reduction of it.
"By advocating such behavior we have become nothing better than the Nazi's we are aggressing. Are we a nation of violence where the majority rule with assault? Should the mob against the Nazi's be legal recourse?" -
Again, what behavior was advocated? Protesting? Standing up to nazis? What behavior do you think would have been better? Seems like a fine group of people made a good showing, and got the nazis to leave, ...and you did what?
"Let these people have their say. It will sound just like it is. You cannot hide the truth and these racists will not be able to hide the truth from the masses. They will look just like the uneducated racists they have become." -
Not all racists are uneducated. And they seem to be smart enough to at least mobilize lots of people, aka the minutemen movement, and also create tones of money in revenue everyyear, aka the white power music scene. Some of us here aren't going to sit around while synogoges are bombed, and people are pulled on ropes behind trucks.
-Doug
CV IMC Editor
Trail them back tom their lairs and kill them.
Whoever this + person is he sounds just like one of the Nazis he's speaking against. Look, free speech is for everyone, even for people whose views we find repugnant, i.e. Nazis, Fascists, Communists and anyone else who espouses violent totalitarian ideologies. The best way to deal with their speech is with more speech. Having 100 people chase away six Nazis or Communists is hardly what I'd call heroic. It's a mob mentality. That's the mentality that Fascists and Communists thrive on. When they show up anywhere with their hate speech, just drown them out with anti-hate speech. The Nazis and Communists will see they have no support, get discouraged and go away. That's how it works everytime.
It was the non-violent power of positive speech that won out against the rascists in the civil rights movement. It was the non-violent power of positive free speech by Solidarity and pro-democracy movements that faced down the tyrants in the old Communist Eastern Europe. Let's not forget history.
It was the non-violent power of positive speech that won out against the rascists in the civil rights movement. It was the non-violent power of positive free speech by Solidarity and pro-democracy movements that faced down the tyrants in the old Communist Eastern Europe. Let's not forget history.
There was a point in history when the entiry Nazi movement could have been wiped out in a single bar brawl. It wasn't. As a direct result, at least fifty million people died. Non violence is not an appropriate response to Nazism. It doesn't work. The only good Nazi is a dead Nazi.
"There was a point in history when the entiry Nazi movement could have been wiped out in a single bar brawl. It wasn't. As a direct result, at least fifty million people died. Non violence is not an appropriate response to Nazism. It doesn't work. The only good Nazi is a dead Nazi."
A group like the Minute Men does seem like a group that has the mainstream connections to pose a real danger in the long term but NeoNazi groups seem more like satanic cults than anything real. It is true that Hitler started out small but that doesnt mean that small groups without mass appeal normally pose a danger outside of their immediate actions (which must be confronted when they are threatening).
Open NeoNazis in the US today are in some sense not as dangerous as preWWII Nazis exactly because they call themselves Nazis; the nationalistic appeal of a group the US fought in a World War will never exist at any significant level. The same is true of Communist groups in the US. The strange part about NeoNazis (and to a lesser extent some currently proStalin Communist groups) is that they really dont resemble the movement that claim to be a continuation of. Hitler was a German nationalist who wanted to take over most of Europe for the Germans and kill all Jews, he drew off a real public fear post1917 of the Soviets as well as an economic collapse that was due to the treaty that ended WWI. The US is already the Woeld superpower, Communists groups are basically irrelevent (and the USSR is gone), and there isnt an economic collapse causing hyperinflation and food shortages in the US... modern neoNazis are drawn in a small religious cult would drawn in members and the anarchonistic nature of the beliefs and styles is itself very different than the appeal of the preWWII Nazis. If you look at Eastern Europe neoNazis there do resemble groups that carried out pogroms in the late 1800s (and are very dangerous groups) but they dont resemble the actual Nazi movement.
If a group is openly threatening to people they definitely should be confronted, but I do fear that equating neoNazis to actual Nazis is playing into their psychosis and actually encourages them since the confrontation makes them see themselves as relevent rather than the small crazy cult that they are. The focus of Satan as the ultimate evil makes teenage Satanic cults big in religiously conservative parts of the US as an act of rebellion and one would except that in liberal communities (where Nazi and Fascist is the ultimate evil) those will be the form that teenage rebellion takes (or perhaps mid life crisis rebellions in the case of people like Horrowitz who take fascist sounding views on many subjects in rebellion against his parents and own youth)
A group like the Minute Men does seem like a group that has the mainstream connections to pose a real danger in the long term but NeoNazi groups seem more like satanic cults than anything real. It is true that Hitler started out small but that doesnt mean that small groups without mass appeal normally pose a danger outside of their immediate actions (which must be confronted when they are threatening).
Open NeoNazis in the US today are in some sense not as dangerous as preWWII Nazis exactly because they call themselves Nazis; the nationalistic appeal of a group the US fought in a World War will never exist at any significant level. The same is true of Communist groups in the US. The strange part about NeoNazis (and to a lesser extent some currently proStalin Communist groups) is that they really dont resemble the movement that claim to be a continuation of. Hitler was a German nationalist who wanted to take over most of Europe for the Germans and kill all Jews, he drew off a real public fear post1917 of the Soviets as well as an economic collapse that was due to the treaty that ended WWI. The US is already the Woeld superpower, Communists groups are basically irrelevent (and the USSR is gone), and there isnt an economic collapse causing hyperinflation and food shortages in the US... modern neoNazis are drawn in a small religious cult would drawn in members and the anarchonistic nature of the beliefs and styles is itself very different than the appeal of the preWWII Nazis. If you look at Eastern Europe neoNazis there do resemble groups that carried out pogroms in the late 1800s (and are very dangerous groups) but they dont resemble the actual Nazi movement.
If a group is openly threatening to people they definitely should be confronted, but I do fear that equating neoNazis to actual Nazis is playing into their psychosis and actually encourages them since the confrontation makes them see themselves as relevent rather than the small crazy cult that they are. The focus of Satan as the ultimate evil makes teenage Satanic cults big in religiously conservative parts of the US as an act of rebellion and one would except that in liberal communities (where Nazi and Fascist is the ultimate evil) those will be the form that teenage rebellion takes (or perhaps mid life crisis rebellions in the case of people like Horrowitz who take fascist sounding views on many subjects in rebellion against his parents and own youth)
"Non violence is not an appropriate response to Nazism. It doesn't work. The only good Nazi is a dead Nazi."
Strange words coming from a red-scare-brainwashed commie-hater like you
If that's really how you feel, you should think seriously about waging guerrilla warfare against this government, because it's the same shit. Yeah it is. It always has been. Every infamous thing the Nazis did, Uncle Sam did FIRST (genocide? HELLO??), so when Americans carry on self-righteously about the Nazis they're just being pompous hypocrite historical asshole/idiots. But hey, that's just quintessential Americanism for you. Americans are the most natural-born Nazis in history, and have been proving it steadily ever since the Third Reich got taken down (honk for Rusty Calley, why don't ya?!). When the sane majority of this world gets on its feet, nothing is going to save you
Strange words coming from a red-scare-brainwashed commie-hater like you
If that's really how you feel, you should think seriously about waging guerrilla warfare against this government, because it's the same shit. Yeah it is. It always has been. Every infamous thing the Nazis did, Uncle Sam did FIRST (genocide? HELLO??), so when Americans carry on self-righteously about the Nazis they're just being pompous hypocrite historical asshole/idiots. But hey, that's just quintessential Americanism for you. Americans are the most natural-born Nazis in history, and have been proving it steadily ever since the Third Reich got taken down (honk for Rusty Calley, why don't ya?!). When the sane majority of this world gets on its feet, nothing is going to save you
the ACLU sometimes fights in court for kkk and nazis "right " to march. this is cause liberals are rich white wolves in sheeps clothing. Americans have free speech even on IMC's to call for wars and genocide. All hitler ever really did was A. Marched around in parades, B. Give his megalomaniac, genocidal speeches to induce the masses to kill semites, just like Bush induces America massacre semites in Iraq. Lots of liberal lawyers would bend over backward to defend Hitlers right to give his speeches - lots of politicians would let him march right into their country.
The number of people belonging to Nazi, Fascist and Communist parties in this country probably number in the couple of thousands, and that's being generous. They are an anachronism. The more you make a big deal out of them, the better for them because at least then someone's paying attention to them. Their bankrupt idealogies have been discredited. Listen, there are people out there who hold all kinds of terrible views, but those views shouldn't be outlawed. It crosses the line into criminal behavior when they stop being views and these people try to hurt others. We have laws already on the books to deal with that when it arises. Going out and picking fights with Nazis and Communists is exactly what they want, they get attention and can look like an oppressed group. Fight their negative ideas with positive ideas.
Nobody in their right mind thinks that Fascism and Bolshevism and other discredited isms are coming back, giving them even this much attention only gives their demented followers more attention than they deserve. My advice, ignore the nutty extremists and work positively in your communities to make the world better.
Nobody in their right mind thinks that Fascism and Bolshevism and other discredited isms are coming back, giving them even this much attention only gives their demented followers more attention than they deserve. My advice, ignore the nutty extremists and work positively in your communities to make the world better.
Wow,
I can't really figure out which side is the most ignorant. First of all, the word nazi doesn't imply solely those that existed in Germany or Europe pre-WWII. It's an ideology of extreme racism, nationalism, and fascism. So yes, Nazis exist and will continue to exist until we exterminate them all. Secondly, to equate communists and nazis is an extremely dangerous idea. it was the communists that sent the nazis all the way back to berlin. it was the soviet union that crushed the nazis. it was the working class empowered with communist ideology (though they never got there due to their political shortcomings) that courageously fought and smashed the fascist Nazis. Get your history right people....
So yes, we need to confront this scum and smash them everytime they rear their ugly head. Our future depends on getting rid of them and their ideology. If these scum were serious about being against immigrants, then maybe they should not eat, clothe themselves, or live in a home. For immigrants hands worked, immigrant blood was spilled, and immigrant sweat went into any and all products, commodities, etc they consume. The best idea would be for them to die. Die Nazi Scum! Die!
I can't really figure out which side is the most ignorant. First of all, the word nazi doesn't imply solely those that existed in Germany or Europe pre-WWII. It's an ideology of extreme racism, nationalism, and fascism. So yes, Nazis exist and will continue to exist until we exterminate them all. Secondly, to equate communists and nazis is an extremely dangerous idea. it was the communists that sent the nazis all the way back to berlin. it was the soviet union that crushed the nazis. it was the working class empowered with communist ideology (though they never got there due to their political shortcomings) that courageously fought and smashed the fascist Nazis. Get your history right people....
So yes, we need to confront this scum and smash them everytime they rear their ugly head. Our future depends on getting rid of them and their ideology. If these scum were serious about being against immigrants, then maybe they should not eat, clothe themselves, or live in a home. For immigrants hands worked, immigrant blood was spilled, and immigrant sweat went into any and all products, commodities, etc they consume. The best idea would be for them to die. Die Nazi Scum! Die!
The quintessential feature of fascism in Europe (and everywhere else) 1920 to present, and therefore of Nazism under Hitler, was not white supremacism, but rabid militant anti-communism. Mussolini, Franco, Salazar, the Somozas, Diem, Papadopoulos, Pinochet, Suharto, Marcos, Banzer, Videla, Castelo Branco, Rios Montt, etc etc etc were not generally ethnic nationalists, but they were all fascists and they were ***ALL*** mass-murdering anti-communist fanatics -- like the US government, their main sponsor in almost all cases. It's really amazing to see Americans condemn fascism with such smugness year after year, when here they've been the world leaders of same since 1945. If they weren't such grotesque deluded hypocrites, the Nazi Party would be their #1 electoral choice. Can hypocrites this profound and STUPID really bring positive change to the world? I have strong doubts
were they at the statehouse to see arnolds dad, the austrian SS cop? or his SS war criminal friend Kurt Waldheim, former president of Austria? are you sure you chased all of the nazis away from the statehouse?
they walk in but they don't walk out. bring your shit-filled hate back to sacramento again mother fuckers.
How many times do I have to say it? You could probably fit every member of a Nazi, or Communist, or Fascist party into a phone booth. They are irrelevant, an historical anachronism. Stop fussing over them, they don't deserve it. You only give them the attention they don't deserve when you do so.
Also, nobody's equating Fascism to Bolshevism. They are already morally equivalent. Both the fascists and the Bolsheviks, upon coming to power, proceeded to eliminate free speech, shut down independent media and art, crush any opposition and consolidate power around a ruling elite. Both idealogies created police states to maintain that elite in power and both idealogies littered the planet with countless millions of corpses in pursuit of raw power.
Also don't preach about Communists defeating the Nazis. True, the citizens of what was then the USSR fought heroically to defend their homelands from a foreign invader after Hitler reneged on his non-agression pact with Stalin to divide up Poland. But the Soviet citizens were as much victims of their own murderous government as they were the invading Nazis. They beat the Nazis despite the communist leadership, not because of it. For example, many hundreds of thousands of freed Soviet prisoners of war ended up dying in Stalin's gulags after the war, accused of being spies. Stalin's logic is if you didn't die on the battlefield you must have been collaborating with the Germans. Some gratitude!
Fascism and Bolshevism were two of the most catastrophic idealogies in human history, and thank all that is good that they've been relegated to the dust bin of history.
These ridiculous new incarnations aren't even worth wasting a solitary moment on. They're simply losers. Don't waste your time with them.
Also, nobody's equating Fascism to Bolshevism. They are already morally equivalent. Both the fascists and the Bolsheviks, upon coming to power, proceeded to eliminate free speech, shut down independent media and art, crush any opposition and consolidate power around a ruling elite. Both idealogies created police states to maintain that elite in power and both idealogies littered the planet with countless millions of corpses in pursuit of raw power.
Also don't preach about Communists defeating the Nazis. True, the citizens of what was then the USSR fought heroically to defend their homelands from a foreign invader after Hitler reneged on his non-agression pact with Stalin to divide up Poland. But the Soviet citizens were as much victims of their own murderous government as they were the invading Nazis. They beat the Nazis despite the communist leadership, not because of it. For example, many hundreds of thousands of freed Soviet prisoners of war ended up dying in Stalin's gulags after the war, accused of being spies. Stalin's logic is if you didn't die on the battlefield you must have been collaborating with the Germans. Some gratitude!
Fascism and Bolshevism were two of the most catastrophic idealogies in human history, and thank all that is good that they've been relegated to the dust bin of history.
These ridiculous new incarnations aren't even worth wasting a solitary moment on. They're simply losers. Don't waste your time with them.
...to tell us how to feel about bleeding Nazis.
Geez, that's a tough one to figure out without some really rigorous intellectual and moral leadership.
Geez, that's a tough one to figure out without some really rigorous intellectual and moral leadership.
Same shirt, differtent color.
next time we will beat on racist fucks like a well worn drum. and maybe the church goers, if they knew who you were, might join in kicking the shit out of you too.
No. They recruit kids in high schools in some places. They killed the two most prominent gay rights activists in Redding and have burned synagogues down and burned crosses on black folks front lawns right here in California. Go inland a little and you'll be shocked how prevalent overt racism can be in the central valley or in Orange County down south. I was once at a concert in Andersen California and 40 of them marched up in formation and started sieg-hieling in unison to drown out the music. They have million dollar record labels and some folks believe they're into the meth trade. You can bet your ass that the same underlying social patterns that have brought fascists to the forefront in times of crisis in the past are still there. In the event of a depression or recession they will mobilize quickly if they are allowed to build infrastructure. Times of crisis have always turned into racism in US history and white folks who care have to be ready to stop its spread before it gets any momentum.
Don't forget the current anti-immigrant sentiment which is incredibly common and which these fuckers are already trying to exploit. Immigrants are the new scapegoats, just like the Jews in Nazi germany. If we don't fight back against these dipshits there's no telling how many people they may infect. BASH THE FASH!!
NeoNazis do have more funding than many small cults and they have carried out many acts of violence.
In California jails they have enough power there is a huge trial going on righat now against their leaders in jail:
http://www.kcbd.com/Global/story.asp?S=4763158&nav=CcXH
But in general focusing on them as Nazis seems counterproductive since demonizing something also helps keep it alive as a view.
As for the talk of Nazi maning this or that and Nazis being an equivalent term to fascist being an equivalent term to ultrnationalist racist or Capitalist I think its pretty much worldplay. Wikipedia has an entry stating that
"The word Nazism is most often used in connection with the government of Nazi Germany from 1933 to 1945 (the "Third Reich"), and it is derived from the term National Socialism"
...
Since World War II, in which Nazi Germany was allied with Fascist Italy, there has been a widely held view among historians and the general population that Nazism and Fascism are closely related. The term Fascism is often used in a very broad sense, to refer to a variety of authoritarian nationalist political movements that exist or existed in many countries. As such, Nazism is usually classified as a particular version of Fascism.
However, if one restricts the definition of Fascism to those movements and governments that called themselves Fascist (e.g. Benito Mussolini's regime in Italy and the British Union of Fascists), a number of differences between Nazism and Fascism can be observed. Fascists tended to believe that all elements in society should be unified through Corporatism to form an "Organic State"; this meant that Fascists often had no strong opinion on the question of race, as it was only the State and nation that mattered. Nazism, on the other hand, emphasized the Aryan race or "Volk" over state to the point where the state simply became a means through which the Aryan race could realize its true destiny."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazis
Which does give one an idea that saying "Nazi" means this or that is meaningless. It was the name of a political cult in Germany in the 20s-30s and as with other groups like Republicans or Greens arguing that "Green" REALLY means one thing obviously has no meaning. Words like totalitarian, genocidal, corporatist and militaristic have much more substance as words than Nazi or fascist, and one can see many of those things in the US government (but calling the US government Nazis has about as much substance as when the US media referred to the Germans during WWI as Huns). I wonder if one were not allowed to use the word Nazi or fascist if neoNazi groups could exist in the cultish form they do since while i guess they could call themselves racists using that and claiming to support genocide, militarism and totalitarianism just doesnt have the appeal of a demonized group with a taboo name that will scare people due to the mystical feel that teenagers assign to things described by their parents as evil.
In California jails they have enough power there is a huge trial going on righat now against their leaders in jail:
http://www.kcbd.com/Global/story.asp?S=4763158&nav=CcXH
But in general focusing on them as Nazis seems counterproductive since demonizing something also helps keep it alive as a view.
As for the talk of Nazi maning this or that and Nazis being an equivalent term to fascist being an equivalent term to ultrnationalist racist or Capitalist I think its pretty much worldplay. Wikipedia has an entry stating that
"The word Nazism is most often used in connection with the government of Nazi Germany from 1933 to 1945 (the "Third Reich"), and it is derived from the term National Socialism"
...
Since World War II, in which Nazi Germany was allied with Fascist Italy, there has been a widely held view among historians and the general population that Nazism and Fascism are closely related. The term Fascism is often used in a very broad sense, to refer to a variety of authoritarian nationalist political movements that exist or existed in many countries. As such, Nazism is usually classified as a particular version of Fascism.
However, if one restricts the definition of Fascism to those movements and governments that called themselves Fascist (e.g. Benito Mussolini's regime in Italy and the British Union of Fascists), a number of differences between Nazism and Fascism can be observed. Fascists tended to believe that all elements in society should be unified through Corporatism to form an "Organic State"; this meant that Fascists often had no strong opinion on the question of race, as it was only the State and nation that mattered. Nazism, on the other hand, emphasized the Aryan race or "Volk" over state to the point where the state simply became a means through which the Aryan race could realize its true destiny."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazis
Which does give one an idea that saying "Nazi" means this or that is meaningless. It was the name of a political cult in Germany in the 20s-30s and as with other groups like Republicans or Greens arguing that "Green" REALLY means one thing obviously has no meaning. Words like totalitarian, genocidal, corporatist and militaristic have much more substance as words than Nazi or fascist, and one can see many of those things in the US government (but calling the US government Nazis has about as much substance as when the US media referred to the Germans during WWI as Huns). I wonder if one were not allowed to use the word Nazi or fascist if neoNazi groups could exist in the cultish form they do since while i guess they could call themselves racists using that and claiming to support genocide, militarism and totalitarianism just doesnt have the appeal of a demonized group with a taboo name that will scare people due to the mystical feel that teenagers assign to things described by their parents as evil.
Nazism and fascism.
telling the difference
>The quintessential feature of fascism . . . and therefore of Nazism . . .
This is bunk logic. The word "therefore" begs the question. It assumes that Nazism is a form of fascism. This is not true. Nazism and fascism overlap, that's all. Fascism is an economic system, in which the government is controlled by the corporations. It's not about ethnicity at all.
Nazism is all about ethnicity. Ethnicity is what makes Nazism be Nazism. assumes some of trappings of fascism, and employs some of it functions, but its heart, core and essence, its "quintessential feature," so to speak, is its Rassismus. Its racism sets Nazism apart from fascism in a clear, distinct and easily grasped manner.
Nazism affords race a mystical reverence that makes it more of a religion than a system of political economics. Think of them as another one of those "cults that kill." Factoring in the rituals and the dogma make it even clearer what it is we are really dealing with here. A particularly illustrative clarification can be found in the intentional modeling of the SS on the Jesuits. Far more than the external trappings were adopted by Nazism. They adopted actual structures and techniques, and not just from the RCC, either.
Perhaps the clearest evidence of Nazism being an essentially religious, as opposed to political-economic, phenomenon can be found in its evolution. To get to the roots of Nazism, we must study its history. Success, as well as intellectual honesty, require a thorough examination of Nazism's precursors. Unfortunately, official history, as taught in schools, fails to address this crucial element of the Nazi story. You're going to have to dig a little find out the facts. Fortunately, though, once they have been uncovered, their meaning is obvious.
Done right, this area of research can be most productive. Once you have seen traced the social and political networks and interpersonal relationships that sprang up in, around and because of Thule, Vril, the Green Dragon Society, et al, it all falls into place.
Research in this area is challenging. A great deal of fantasy, some of it intentional, has been written on the topic. It requires some sorting out. I recommend that you start with Gods and Beasts: The Nazis and the Occult by Dusty Sklar. It puts me in mind of Martin Lee's The Beast Reawakens, in that ties together the tangled strands of pre WWI proto Nazi networks and personal relationships the way that Lee ties together the tangled strands of the post WWII Nazi diaspora. It's a very important book to anyone who's trying suss out Nazi social structures, and the social structures of those they interact with.
Once you have read The Beast Reawakens, it becomes abundantly obvious that the so-called "neo" Nazis of today are not "neo" at all. Nazism did not die out and be reborn. Au contrair. There is clear and well documented evidence of unbroken direct continuity. Lee illustrates this chronologically, in plain English. He did a lot of homework exceptionally well, and then turned it into a top notch piece of history. It is not just complete, but totally accessible to the non specialist. This guy can write. He knows how to follow the money. He knows how to make a timeline not a literary device, but a part of story itself.
Once you've read Sklar, the true nature of the Nazi phenomenon will become clear. She's just as thorough a researcher as Lee and just as coherent a story teller. The part of the story she tells is much more challenging to tell than the part of the story that Lee tells. The more historical remote a story is, the harder it is to access primary sources, of course, but Sklar faced unique challenges as well. The subject matter itself presents problems that other historians don't how to deal with.
The story of Nazism's birth and parentage involves what is commonly called "The Occult." It's a loaded word and a highly charged topic, one on which rational thought, to say nothing of discourse, is far from the norm. Reaction to exposure an be quite extreme. To even address the topic in academic terms, is to invite ridicule. As a career move, it is questionable.
"The Occult" is not just a loaded term, it is so broad and vague as to be almost meaningless. Most, though certainly not all, "occult" dogma is useless gibberish. This is true of all religious thought. To find the few true pearls of wisdom hidden therein is a long, hard sort. Next to this, finding needles in haystacks is child's play. And that's just the dogma. The literature on the subject is even worse, and a much longer, much harder job to sort. There are many far more productive ways for anyone, particularly a historian, to invest their precious, finite time.
Yet in this particular part of the story, "The Occult" is a key element. When they hear the term "The Occult," most people think of the sprawling heterogeneity of supernatural beings and magical talismans, of the eerie, the fell, the eldritch, or even the merely phantasmagoric. Listen to them. Children of the night. What headlines the make. Martians invade the Earth. Poles invade Germany. Statue of Elvis found on Mars. Dwarf rapes nun, escapes in UFO. Since 4:30 this morning, we have been shooting back. Blah, blah, blah., And so forth. How can anybody take seriously anything said by anyone who even thinks about whack-ass sh*t like this?
And yet its role is crucial to the development of the Nazi phenomenon, because of the way it facilitated the secret networking, as well as the flow of ideas and money that made Nazism possible. There is nothing supernatural at all about how common interests draw together people who might not otherwise have even met, let alone discovered that they shared other common interests as well. There is nothing supernatural at all about the potential for mischief afforded by secrecy. The role in history of secret, and semi-secret, societies has been both highly exaggerated and irrationally downplayed by historians across the globe. Their very existence has been denied. But there they are. They are not, as some people would have us believe, the sole driving force behind history. But they are a factor, and they need to be understood.
The term "secret society" comes encumbered with negative connotations that dramatically inhibit objectivity in a great many people, even trained historians who really ought to know better. Like "conspiracy theory" or "The Occult" it is a term that clouds reason. Most of the literature available is useless. It fixates on dogma, both real and imagined, to the exclusion of the real life people and events who network around that dogma. They're the real story. And what a story it is. If ever there was a story that did not need to decked out in fantasy to make it more interesting, this one's it. Yet throughout the literature, you will find the most outlandish and improbable fiction, from Atlantis to little grey men. Ignore that part. Much of it is the very same claptrap that has come to infest the post WWII Nazi story, at least as it is told by the more imaginative of the story tellers, especially the ones on the internet. Ignore that part, too.
Instead, follow the money. Keep track of names. Use primary sources whenever it's possible. That's what Lee did. That's what Sklar did. That's what you should do. If you do, you stand a fighting chance of understanding who these people are and what they are doing. Otherwise, it's not all that easy. It is especially difficult if you get hung up in such pulp nonsense as that put out by guys like Ravenscroft. Take Suster with a grain of salt, too, though both men are worth reading, if only to gain some grasp of the depth of fantasy that has been wrapped around the truth about the secret and semi-secret organizations behind the Nazi movement.
Nazis are not what they appear to be because they have taken great pains to be other than as they appear. They place great value on what they call Tarnung, or elaborate camouflage. Now they wear white shirts. Others dress like dear hunters and train in the woods to be soldiers. Their organizations are similarly disguised as fronts within fronts, shells within shells. This makes following the money a herculean task. It's nothing new, either. They were hiding in plain sight, and laundering their money through friends in high places since long before their panzers rolled into Poland. Read Treason's Peace by Armbruster, Trading With the Enemy by Higham, and Crime and Punishment of IG Farben by Borkin. Then you can begin to appreciate how much further their techniques must have evolved over the decades. These guys are really, really good at making themselves look like something they are not. They disguise their money and their power with equal skill.
Some Nazis are literally the guy next door. They are small time, no account wannabe has beens. Some of these guys, even other Nazis will have nothing to do with. But other Nazis have friends in very high places, indeed. Yet other Nazis are those friends in high places.
Do not mistake the ones you see on the news for the ones you do not see on the news. There is a lot more to the modern Nazi movement than meets the eye. These little public events like in Sacramento and York are not "the Nazis" or "the Nazi movement." They are street theater performances whose intent is not to recruit new Nazis, but to give the rest of the world the impression that Nazis are a tiny handful of slow witted, bumbling cowards, and not a threat to anyone.
It's a trick. Don't fall for it.
These guys are, as James Coates puts it in his equally important book, both "armed and dangerous." And keep in mind that the specific guys that Coates was talking about are only the tip of the iceberg. The real Nazis, the ones behind the scenes, who are pulling the strings of all those wannabe McVeighs out there, have real money and real power, not just on the national stage, but on the world stage. They just don't call themselves "Nazis," at least not when other people can hear them. So most people never notice them. A lot of people don't believe that anything goes on behind the scenes. Some poor, deluded fools even believe that there is no behind the scenes in politics, that we live in a free and open society, in which everything and everybody are exactly what they appear to be.
It's a trick. Don't fall for it. Deceit, as Sun Tzu reminds us, is the very essence of war. War is politics by other means. Nothing in politics is what it first appeared to be.
Always ask cui bono? Who benefits as long as the rest of us believe that the real Nazis, and the whole intricate coalition of their equally evil, and equally dangerous, allies, are really just a tiny handful of really pathetic lames? Who benefits if we don't take the threat they represent seriously, and sit on our duffs and do nothing while they organize, build, train and stockpile? Who benefits if, when they finally make their move, we are taken by surprise?
Whatever else it may be, it wont be pretty for people like us. Remember, thier friends in high places have passed laws and pulled strings for years now, to create the necessary social terrain upon which their plan depends. Remember Rex 84? Remember the establishment of the State Defense forces, formed of cadre from the grass roots Nazi, Klan and fascist undergrounds, and designed to function as deputized auxiliaries, should law enforcement and the National Guard not be up to task of a really big round up? That was two decades ago. Two decades! Imagine how much better organized the plan must be today, after twenty years of refinement and the enormous strides that have been made in the technologies of repression?
The fifty million dead figure is not exaggerated. If anything, it's probably low. Remember, I never said that the Nazis killed fifty millions. What I'm saying is that had Nazism been nipped in the bud, WWII would not have happened. Something else would have happened, particularly in the Far East and in Africa. It would have been equally evil. But it never would have been on the scale that Germany's participation allowed.
It is true that we should always avoid exaggerating the power of our enemies. Otherwise, moral suffers. But it is equally foolish to ignore their power or to play down the threat they present. Even the slow witted, bumbling cowards cowards that are the grass roots nazis youth movement can be extremely dangerous face to face. In the 80s, eight of them beat my neighbor in Berkeley to death with plumbing pipes. When my friend Rad Rob tried to break it up, the fractured his skull in two places, and put him into a coma for a week. The BPD's attempt to solve the case was far more symbolic than real.
The San Francisco skins were no less dangerous. A number of corpses turned up in Buena Vista Park that were alleged to have been skinhead muggings gone overboard. There were other incidents of skinhead violence. Mark Dagger is alleged to have stabbed a guy. Bags did a year in the slammer for biting a guy's nose off in a fight. And so forth. These are not nice people. Never, never, ever, let them corner you.
This is not to say they cannot be defeated at the grassroots level. Most skins were, after all, driven out of San Francisco. Others were driven deep underground. The various communities that they preyed upon united and confronted them with a combination of violence, terror and public humiliation. It worked. They're out of here.
Wherever Nazis and their friends make a public display of themselves, it behooves us all to, as the saying goes, pull 'em up before they take root. If it takes violence, then violence it must be. Violence has uses. This is one of them. Besides, it feels really, really good to kick Nazi butt. As some guy once said, "We were the good guys. They were the bad guys. And . . . they made a very satisfying 'thump' when they hit the floor."
Once, long ago, people laughed at Nazis. They were seen as comic opera figures, quaint and funny, but certainly harmless. We must never make that mistake again.
This is bunk logic. The word "therefore" begs the question. It assumes that Nazism is a form of fascism. This is not true. Nazism and fascism overlap, that's all. Fascism is an economic system, in which the government is controlled by the corporations. It's not about ethnicity at all.
Nazism is all about ethnicity. Ethnicity is what makes Nazism be Nazism. assumes some of trappings of fascism, and employs some of it functions, but its heart, core and essence, its "quintessential feature," so to speak, is its Rassismus. Its racism sets Nazism apart from fascism in a clear, distinct and easily grasped manner.
Nazism affords race a mystical reverence that makes it more of a religion than a system of political economics. Think of them as another one of those "cults that kill." Factoring in the rituals and the dogma make it even clearer what it is we are really dealing with here. A particularly illustrative clarification can be found in the intentional modeling of the SS on the Jesuits. Far more than the external trappings were adopted by Nazism. They adopted actual structures and techniques, and not just from the RCC, either.
Perhaps the clearest evidence of Nazism being an essentially religious, as opposed to political-economic, phenomenon can be found in its evolution. To get to the roots of Nazism, we must study its history. Success, as well as intellectual honesty, require a thorough examination of Nazism's precursors. Unfortunately, official history, as taught in schools, fails to address this crucial element of the Nazi story. You're going to have to dig a little find out the facts. Fortunately, though, once they have been uncovered, their meaning is obvious.
Done right, this area of research can be most productive. Once you have seen traced the social and political networks and interpersonal relationships that sprang up in, around and because of Thule, Vril, the Green Dragon Society, et al, it all falls into place.
Research in this area is challenging. A great deal of fantasy, some of it intentional, has been written on the topic. It requires some sorting out. I recommend that you start with Gods and Beasts: The Nazis and the Occult by Dusty Sklar. It puts me in mind of Martin Lee's The Beast Reawakens, in that ties together the tangled strands of pre WWI proto Nazi networks and personal relationships the way that Lee ties together the tangled strands of the post WWII Nazi diaspora. It's a very important book to anyone who's trying suss out Nazi social structures, and the social structures of those they interact with.
Once you have read The Beast Reawakens, it becomes abundantly obvious that the so-called "neo" Nazis of today are not "neo" at all. Nazism did not die out and be reborn. Au contrair. There is clear and well documented evidence of unbroken direct continuity. Lee illustrates this chronologically, in plain English. He did a lot of homework exceptionally well, and then turned it into a top notch piece of history. It is not just complete, but totally accessible to the non specialist. This guy can write. He knows how to follow the money. He knows how to make a timeline not a literary device, but a part of story itself.
Once you've read Sklar, the true nature of the Nazi phenomenon will become clear. She's just as thorough a researcher as Lee and just as coherent a story teller. The part of the story she tells is much more challenging to tell than the part of the story that Lee tells. The more historical remote a story is, the harder it is to access primary sources, of course, but Sklar faced unique challenges as well. The subject matter itself presents problems that other historians don't how to deal with.
The story of Nazism's birth and parentage involves what is commonly called "The Occult." It's a loaded word and a highly charged topic, one on which rational thought, to say nothing of discourse, is far from the norm. Reaction to exposure an be quite extreme. To even address the topic in academic terms, is to invite ridicule. As a career move, it is questionable.
"The Occult" is not just a loaded term, it is so broad and vague as to be almost meaningless. Most, though certainly not all, "occult" dogma is useless gibberish. This is true of all religious thought. To find the few true pearls of wisdom hidden therein is a long, hard sort. Next to this, finding needles in haystacks is child's play. And that's just the dogma. The literature on the subject is even worse, and a much longer, much harder job to sort. There are many far more productive ways for anyone, particularly a historian, to invest their precious, finite time.
Yet in this particular part of the story, "The Occult" is a key element. When they hear the term "The Occult," most people think of the sprawling heterogeneity of supernatural beings and magical talismans, of the eerie, the fell, the eldritch, or even the merely phantasmagoric. Listen to them. Children of the night. What headlines the make. Martians invade the Earth. Poles invade Germany. Statue of Elvis found on Mars. Dwarf rapes nun, escapes in UFO. Since 4:30 this morning, we have been shooting back. Blah, blah, blah., And so forth. How can anybody take seriously anything said by anyone who even thinks about whack-ass sh*t like this?
And yet its role is crucial to the development of the Nazi phenomenon, because of the way it facilitated the secret networking, as well as the flow of ideas and money that made Nazism possible. There is nothing supernatural at all about how common interests draw together people who might not otherwise have even met, let alone discovered that they shared other common interests as well. There is nothing supernatural at all about the potential for mischief afforded by secrecy. The role in history of secret, and semi-secret, societies has been both highly exaggerated and irrationally downplayed by historians across the globe. Their very existence has been denied. But there they are. They are not, as some people would have us believe, the sole driving force behind history. But they are a factor, and they need to be understood.
The term "secret society" comes encumbered with negative connotations that dramatically inhibit objectivity in a great many people, even trained historians who really ought to know better. Like "conspiracy theory" or "The Occult" it is a term that clouds reason. Most of the literature available is useless. It fixates on dogma, both real and imagined, to the exclusion of the real life people and events who network around that dogma. They're the real story. And what a story it is. If ever there was a story that did not need to decked out in fantasy to make it more interesting, this one's it. Yet throughout the literature, you will find the most outlandish and improbable fiction, from Atlantis to little grey men. Ignore that part. Much of it is the very same claptrap that has come to infest the post WWII Nazi story, at least as it is told by the more imaginative of the story tellers, especially the ones on the internet. Ignore that part, too.
Instead, follow the money. Keep track of names. Use primary sources whenever it's possible. That's what Lee did. That's what Sklar did. That's what you should do. If you do, you stand a fighting chance of understanding who these people are and what they are doing. Otherwise, it's not all that easy. It is especially difficult if you get hung up in such pulp nonsense as that put out by guys like Ravenscroft. Take Suster with a grain of salt, too, though both men are worth reading, if only to gain some grasp of the depth of fantasy that has been wrapped around the truth about the secret and semi-secret organizations behind the Nazi movement.
Nazis are not what they appear to be because they have taken great pains to be other than as they appear. They place great value on what they call Tarnung, or elaborate camouflage. Now they wear white shirts. Others dress like dear hunters and train in the woods to be soldiers. Their organizations are similarly disguised as fronts within fronts, shells within shells. This makes following the money a herculean task. It's nothing new, either. They were hiding in plain sight, and laundering their money through friends in high places since long before their panzers rolled into Poland. Read Treason's Peace by Armbruster, Trading With the Enemy by Higham, and Crime and Punishment of IG Farben by Borkin. Then you can begin to appreciate how much further their techniques must have evolved over the decades. These guys are really, really good at making themselves look like something they are not. They disguise their money and their power with equal skill.
Some Nazis are literally the guy next door. They are small time, no account wannabe has beens. Some of these guys, even other Nazis will have nothing to do with. But other Nazis have friends in very high places, indeed. Yet other Nazis are those friends in high places.
Do not mistake the ones you see on the news for the ones you do not see on the news. There is a lot more to the modern Nazi movement than meets the eye. These little public events like in Sacramento and York are not "the Nazis" or "the Nazi movement." They are street theater performances whose intent is not to recruit new Nazis, but to give the rest of the world the impression that Nazis are a tiny handful of slow witted, bumbling cowards, and not a threat to anyone.
It's a trick. Don't fall for it.
These guys are, as James Coates puts it in his equally important book, both "armed and dangerous." And keep in mind that the specific guys that Coates was talking about are only the tip of the iceberg. The real Nazis, the ones behind the scenes, who are pulling the strings of all those wannabe McVeighs out there, have real money and real power, not just on the national stage, but on the world stage. They just don't call themselves "Nazis," at least not when other people can hear them. So most people never notice them. A lot of people don't believe that anything goes on behind the scenes. Some poor, deluded fools even believe that there is no behind the scenes in politics, that we live in a free and open society, in which everything and everybody are exactly what they appear to be.
It's a trick. Don't fall for it. Deceit, as Sun Tzu reminds us, is the very essence of war. War is politics by other means. Nothing in politics is what it first appeared to be.
Always ask cui bono? Who benefits as long as the rest of us believe that the real Nazis, and the whole intricate coalition of their equally evil, and equally dangerous, allies, are really just a tiny handful of really pathetic lames? Who benefits if we don't take the threat they represent seriously, and sit on our duffs and do nothing while they organize, build, train and stockpile? Who benefits if, when they finally make their move, we are taken by surprise?
Whatever else it may be, it wont be pretty for people like us. Remember, thier friends in high places have passed laws and pulled strings for years now, to create the necessary social terrain upon which their plan depends. Remember Rex 84? Remember the establishment of the State Defense forces, formed of cadre from the grass roots Nazi, Klan and fascist undergrounds, and designed to function as deputized auxiliaries, should law enforcement and the National Guard not be up to task of a really big round up? That was two decades ago. Two decades! Imagine how much better organized the plan must be today, after twenty years of refinement and the enormous strides that have been made in the technologies of repression?
The fifty million dead figure is not exaggerated. If anything, it's probably low. Remember, I never said that the Nazis killed fifty millions. What I'm saying is that had Nazism been nipped in the bud, WWII would not have happened. Something else would have happened, particularly in the Far East and in Africa. It would have been equally evil. But it never would have been on the scale that Germany's participation allowed.
It is true that we should always avoid exaggerating the power of our enemies. Otherwise, moral suffers. But it is equally foolish to ignore their power or to play down the threat they present. Even the slow witted, bumbling cowards cowards that are the grass roots nazis youth movement can be extremely dangerous face to face. In the 80s, eight of them beat my neighbor in Berkeley to death with plumbing pipes. When my friend Rad Rob tried to break it up, the fractured his skull in two places, and put him into a coma for a week. The BPD's attempt to solve the case was far more symbolic than real.
The San Francisco skins were no less dangerous. A number of corpses turned up in Buena Vista Park that were alleged to have been skinhead muggings gone overboard. There were other incidents of skinhead violence. Mark Dagger is alleged to have stabbed a guy. Bags did a year in the slammer for biting a guy's nose off in a fight. And so forth. These are not nice people. Never, never, ever, let them corner you.
This is not to say they cannot be defeated at the grassroots level. Most skins were, after all, driven out of San Francisco. Others were driven deep underground. The various communities that they preyed upon united and confronted them with a combination of violence, terror and public humiliation. It worked. They're out of here.
Wherever Nazis and their friends make a public display of themselves, it behooves us all to, as the saying goes, pull 'em up before they take root. If it takes violence, then violence it must be. Violence has uses. This is one of them. Besides, it feels really, really good to kick Nazi butt. As some guy once said, "We were the good guys. They were the bad guys. And . . . they made a very satisfying 'thump' when they hit the floor."
Once, long ago, people laughed at Nazis. They were seen as comic opera figures, quaint and funny, but certainly harmless. We must never make that mistake again.
I made it this far in your lecture and had to drop out
"Fascism is an economic system"
no it's not. it's about state control. a religion or worship of the state, so to speak. the government controls the economy (and everything else), sure, but that doesn't automatically mean corporations are running the government in a fascist state. for convenience fascists often work in cooperation with corporate titans but that in itself is not fascism
not sure what dictionary or history book you pulled that statement from, but it's dead wrong, dr. never forget
"Fascism is an economic system"
no it's not. it's about state control. a religion or worship of the state, so to speak. the government controls the economy (and everything else), sure, but that doesn't automatically mean corporations are running the government in a fascist state. for convenience fascists often work in cooperation with corporate titans but that in itself is not fascism
not sure what dictionary or history book you pulled that statement from, but it's dead wrong, dr. never forget
The fact of the matter is that Neo-Nazi and Neo-Communist groups are tiny and irrelevant. Someone ran off a list of local crimes that some self-described Neo-Nazis committed. Well that may be true, but they are isolated incidents, essentially done by members of one, or another racist gang. These Neo-Nazi groups are essentially gangs, the most famous of which, are the Aryan brotherhood prison gang. They are a political non-entity. They aren't worth worrying about.
Gangs in inner cities commit horrible murders and terrorize poor communities of color and poison their communities with drugs. They do a lot more harm to communities of color than white supremacist gangs do. No one calls for groups of progressives to go and confront the Crips, or violently resist them. Why not? The neo-Nazi groups are made up mostly of disaffected young and poor whites, looking for someone to blame for their predicaments. They are easily manipulated into following these stupid racist gangs. They aren't anything even approaching the original Nazis. The historical circumstances are so different that it is meaningless to even compare the two.
By going out and beating them up and trying to deny them free speech and all of that rubbish, you' no better than they are. They are unimportant jackasses. If you believe in standing up for poor communities of color, you'd be better served getting together and forcing out the Crips and Bloods and Latin Kings, who do the Nazis work for them. They're 100 times more damaging to poor people of color than the Nazis could dream of being. If you don't confront them and drive them out, you're being a hypocrite and a coward. The Nazis scarcely exist, while the gang-bangers are thriving.
Gangs in inner cities commit horrible murders and terrorize poor communities of color and poison their communities with drugs. They do a lot more harm to communities of color than white supremacist gangs do. No one calls for groups of progressives to go and confront the Crips, or violently resist them. Why not? The neo-Nazi groups are made up mostly of disaffected young and poor whites, looking for someone to blame for their predicaments. They are easily manipulated into following these stupid racist gangs. They aren't anything even approaching the original Nazis. The historical circumstances are so different that it is meaningless to even compare the two.
By going out and beating them up and trying to deny them free speech and all of that rubbish, you' no better than they are. They are unimportant jackasses. If you believe in standing up for poor communities of color, you'd be better served getting together and forcing out the Crips and Bloods and Latin Kings, who do the Nazis work for them. They're 100 times more damaging to poor people of color than the Nazis could dream of being. If you don't confront them and drive them out, you're being a hypocrite and a coward. The Nazis scarcely exist, while the gang-bangers are thriving.
He pulled it out of his very own history book, titled "How To Bitch Self Righteously About Nazism Whilst ComPLEEEETly Skirting The FACT That It Intersects Fundamentally With My Own McCarthy-Baby Bug-Eyed Hatred Of Communism." He sort of writes it as he goes.
As for the bulk of your ramblings, no nessie, what you're identifying is not Nazis, but the WESTERN RULING CLASS, who after all were Hitler's biggest fans until he lunged for their throats. The poor guy just couldn't forgive or forget WWI. Clean the Invisible Nazi Super-Conspiracy bullshit out of what you're saying and tie it directly to the billionaire scum obviously out to fuck us all to death, and I'd pretty much agree with you. You're making the same mistake as all the Illuminati/Freemasonry/Ickes-lizards losers, who might have something to contribute if they'd outgrow their pet theories and recognize the ONE Master Conspiracy that sheds full light on all the rest: the Class Conspiracy, normally and properly associated with ruling dynasties. Everything else is disinformation
As for the bulk of your ramblings, no nessie, what you're identifying is not Nazis, but the WESTERN RULING CLASS, who after all were Hitler's biggest fans until he lunged for their throats. The poor guy just couldn't forgive or forget WWI. Clean the Invisible Nazi Super-Conspiracy bullshit out of what you're saying and tie it directly to the billionaire scum obviously out to fuck us all to death, and I'd pretty much agree with you. You're making the same mistake as all the Illuminati/Freemasonry/Ickes-lizards losers, who might have something to contribute if they'd outgrow their pet theories and recognize the ONE Master Conspiracy that sheds full light on all the rest: the Class Conspiracy, normally and properly associated with ruling dynasties. Everything else is disinformation
BUSH SR'S CIA USED NAZI TORTURERS IN SOUTH AMERICAN DICTATORSHIPS
Vice President Rockefeller, Kissinger, and Bush Sr. ran a major Death squad operation in South America
Some reasons to Boycott Exxon, Chase, Citigroup etc...
With Congress' " Nazi War Crimes Disclosure Act" of 1998, many records of CIA collaboration with Nazis are being opened to the public, though still heavily censored in many cases, by the Interagency Working Group (IWG)(see their website: http://www.archives.gov/iwg ).
PRESCOTT BUSH, Bush jr's grandfather, sold $50 million in bonds for German steel magnate Fritz Thyssen, the top financer of the Nazi party. In 1942 the Union Bank, in which Prescott Bush was a director, was closed by the US government under the "Trading with the Enemies Act". $30 million in Nazi bank accounts were confiscated. J.D. ROCKEFELLER II and his sons controlled the following corporations known to have served and supplied the Nazi war effort: STANDARD OIL (todays EXXON), which supplied much of the Nazi's gasoline from South American refineries, and was in a tight business partnership with the German company IG FARBEN. FARBEN built Auschwitz concentration camp as a slave labor camp, where 4 million Jews were killed. Rockefellers' lawyer John McCloy, who was deputy-secretary of Defense, twice blocked a plan to bomb the railroad bridges and gas chambers of Auschwitz. (The Crime and Punishment of IG FARBEN, by Joseph Borkin, Barnes and Noble, details the "business marriage" of STANDARD OIL and FARBEN, including the transfer of 2000 patents to the German war machine). Rockefellers' CHASE MANHATTAN bank served Nazi accounts in Paris, forclosed Jewish accounts, and after the war was involved in transferring the Reichsbank to Swiss and South American accounts. Rockefellers' ITT built important communications systems for the Nazis, and his IBM Corp. built ID machines for the holocaust (source: IBM and the Holocaust, Edwin Black, Crown Press). In 1952 John McCloy released the Nazi industrialists and gave them back their factories. IG FARBEN was divided into Bayer, Hoechst, and BASF, today among the largest pharmaceutical companies in the world.-
1947: CIA FOUNDED AS HANDLING AGENCY FOR NAZIS ABSORBED INTO U.S. MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX: In 1947, Rockefellers' lawyer/spy Allen Dulles brought 2000 Nazi scientists into the US (OPERATION PAPERCLIP), to run NASA's rocket program and chemical/ biological weapons programs. In West Germany, Dulles hired Hitlers' master spy Reinhart Gehlen to revive the SS spy agency as the Gehlen Org., which became West Germanys' spy agency BND. Dulles gave Gehlen $200 million in US taxdollars over 10 years to rehire thousands of Nazi SS and GESTAPO veterans, allowing the Nazis to organise underground networks called ODESSA and DIE SPINNE (the spider). These networks created The RATLINE, an escape route to Argentina for thousands of Nazi war criminals sought by Israel, Russia, France etc.. These included notorious Nazis like Adolph Eichmann, Joseph Mengele, Otto Skorzeny, Walther Rauff and Klaus Barbie, who worked for the CIA-BND as advisers to the dictators of Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Paraguay and Bolivia, running torture centers, death squads and cocaine rings. IN 1947 HENRY KISSINGER SERVED AS GERMAN TRANSLATOR IN ARMY INTELLIGENCE, to help Dulles set up these secret networks. He personally "interrogated" many of the top Nazi prisoners held by the US Army, who were absorbed into the CIA-BND. (see: The CIAs worst kept secret, by M. Lee, under Archived article "Nazi echo" at http://www.consortiumnews.com ) In 1952 Dulles ordered SS comando Skorzeny to bring 200 Nazis to Egypt as military advisors to Abdul Nasser in his war with Israel (see: Postwar Arab links to the ODESSA network, at http://www.fantompowa.net/Flame/nazis_postwar_egypt.htm ).
DULLES BEGAN THE CIA POLICY OF COUP D'ETATS, IN WHICH DEMOCRATIC GOVERNMENTS WERE REPLACED BY MILITARY DICTATORSHIPS. as follows:
-----1953, IRAN: President Mossadegh overthrown by the pro-nazi Shah Pahlavi, who kills and tortures thousands and opens Irans' oilfields to Rockefellers' EXXON corp.
-----1954, GUATEMALA: President Arbenz overthrown by the military, which by 1989 killed 200,000 Mayan Indians. To protect assets of United Fruit co.(Chiquita Bananas). Dulles was a director.
-----1961, ECUADOR: Pres. Arosemana overthrown
-----1961-64, BRAZIL: Pres. Joao Gaulart overthrown
-----1961-65, CONGO: Pres. Lumumba overthrown by Mobutu, who rules corruptly for 32 years and gives 10,000 square miles to OTRAG, a German rocket company run by former Nazi scientists.
-----1963, USA: President JF Kenneddy assassinated; John McCloy and Allen Dulles,(who JFK had fired as CIA director), "serve" on the Warren Commission, which claims there was no conspiracy involved. Lyndon Johnson reverses Kennedy's order to withdraw troops from Vietnam.
-----1963-65, DOMINICAN REPUBLIC: Pres.Bosch ousted
-----1965, INDONESIA: President Sukarno overthrown by Gen. Suharto, who led a massacre (CIA assisted)of up to 1 million Indonesians and ran concentration camps with over 750,000 prisoners whose arms were tatooed with letters. He opened Indonesias' oilfields to Rockefellers EXXON, Mobil and Chevron co's. Rockefellers' Goodyear Tire co. made use of Suhartos' slave labor camps.
-----1965-67, GREECE: Pres. Papandreous overthrown
-----1971, BOLIVIA: President Torres overthrown by Gen. Banzer, who tortures and kills thousands with the help of Nazi war criminal Klaus Barbie. Barbie runs the major cocaine ring known as AMADEUS, a lucrative CIA operation. In 1983 he is extradited to France for his war crimes trial.
-----1973, September 11, CHILE: President Allende overthrown by Gen. Pinochet in a bloody coup in which 3000 Chileans are massacred. The Rockefellers' ITT corp., now run by John McCloy, donates $1 million to the coup effort, which is orchestrated by Henry Kissinger.(source: Rogue State, by William Blum)
.......1976-OPERATION CONDOR, SOUTH AMERICAN ASSASSINATION CARTEL, THE YEAR GEORGE BUSH SR. IS CIA DIRECTOR. In 1976, Nelson Rockefeller was Vice President (to Ford), and his advisor Henry Kissinger was Secretary of State. In this year Kissinger's puppet dictator Pinochet, of Chile, organised Operation CONDOR, to co-ordinate death squad assassinations by the secret police of the dictators of Chile, Brasil, Argentina, Uruguay, and Paraguay . 30,000 leftists were assassinated/ executed/ "disappeared". Former Chilean ambassador Orlando Letelier was car bombed in Washington DC by Chilean agents. Operation CONDOR was based out of a bizarre Nazi colony in Chile known as COLONIA DIGNIDAD, whose founder is wanted in Germany for kidnapping and molesting young boys. Colonia Dignidad was used by Pinochets team to train for the 1973 coup d'etat, and then served as a torture center where prisoners were "disappeared". Many of the top ranking Nazi war criminals in South America are believed to have lived in Colonia Dignidad. In 1993 a cache of documents called the "ARCHIVES OF TERROR" was found in Paraguay detailing Nazi war criminal involvement in Operation Condor, and listing victims, including Israeli agents who were trying to find Nazis to bring to trial. It is highly probable that George Bush sr and Henry Kissinger knew about, and directed, Operation CONDOR. General Pinochet was never ashamed of his pro-Nazi fetish, preferring Nazi uniforms and marching music. In 1985 an American professor, Boris Weisfeiler, was disappeared at Colonia Dignidad. Today Dignidad is a prospering commune valued at $5 billion, but closed to the public and protected by the Chilean military. Today David Rockefeller is the scion of his families' empire, running Chase-Manhattan Bank, the Trilateral Commission, the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), and Rockefeller Center, NYC. Kissinger was Bush jrs choice to head the September 11th investigation. Paul Bremer III, former Director of Kissinger Associates, was Bush's appointed ruler of Iraq. (Sources: Operation Condor, Virtual Truth Commission: http://www.geocities.com/~virtualtruth/condor.htm
---Operation Condor and Pinochet, by Lucy Komisar, LA Times, Nov.1, 1998.
--- Chile, declassified US documents on Pinochet and the 1973 coup, P. Kornbluh, National Security Archive.
---CIA compiled Indonesian Death Lists in 1965, by K.Kadane-
http://www.namebase.org/kadane/html
Vice President Rockefeller, Kissinger, and Bush Sr. ran a major Death squad operation in South America
Some reasons to Boycott Exxon, Chase, Citigroup etc...
With Congress' " Nazi War Crimes Disclosure Act" of 1998, many records of CIA collaboration with Nazis are being opened to the public, though still heavily censored in many cases, by the Interagency Working Group (IWG)(see their website: http://www.archives.gov/iwg ).
PRESCOTT BUSH, Bush jr's grandfather, sold $50 million in bonds for German steel magnate Fritz Thyssen, the top financer of the Nazi party. In 1942 the Union Bank, in which Prescott Bush was a director, was closed by the US government under the "Trading with the Enemies Act". $30 million in Nazi bank accounts were confiscated. J.D. ROCKEFELLER II and his sons controlled the following corporations known to have served and supplied the Nazi war effort: STANDARD OIL (todays EXXON), which supplied much of the Nazi's gasoline from South American refineries, and was in a tight business partnership with the German company IG FARBEN. FARBEN built Auschwitz concentration camp as a slave labor camp, where 4 million Jews were killed. Rockefellers' lawyer John McCloy, who was deputy-secretary of Defense, twice blocked a plan to bomb the railroad bridges and gas chambers of Auschwitz. (The Crime and Punishment of IG FARBEN, by Joseph Borkin, Barnes and Noble, details the "business marriage" of STANDARD OIL and FARBEN, including the transfer of 2000 patents to the German war machine). Rockefellers' CHASE MANHATTAN bank served Nazi accounts in Paris, forclosed Jewish accounts, and after the war was involved in transferring the Reichsbank to Swiss and South American accounts. Rockefellers' ITT built important communications systems for the Nazis, and his IBM Corp. built ID machines for the holocaust (source: IBM and the Holocaust, Edwin Black, Crown Press). In 1952 John McCloy released the Nazi industrialists and gave them back their factories. IG FARBEN was divided into Bayer, Hoechst, and BASF, today among the largest pharmaceutical companies in the world.-
1947: CIA FOUNDED AS HANDLING AGENCY FOR NAZIS ABSORBED INTO U.S. MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX: In 1947, Rockefellers' lawyer/spy Allen Dulles brought 2000 Nazi scientists into the US (OPERATION PAPERCLIP), to run NASA's rocket program and chemical/ biological weapons programs. In West Germany, Dulles hired Hitlers' master spy Reinhart Gehlen to revive the SS spy agency as the Gehlen Org., which became West Germanys' spy agency BND. Dulles gave Gehlen $200 million in US taxdollars over 10 years to rehire thousands of Nazi SS and GESTAPO veterans, allowing the Nazis to organise underground networks called ODESSA and DIE SPINNE (the spider). These networks created The RATLINE, an escape route to Argentina for thousands of Nazi war criminals sought by Israel, Russia, France etc.. These included notorious Nazis like Adolph Eichmann, Joseph Mengele, Otto Skorzeny, Walther Rauff and Klaus Barbie, who worked for the CIA-BND as advisers to the dictators of Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Paraguay and Bolivia, running torture centers, death squads and cocaine rings. IN 1947 HENRY KISSINGER SERVED AS GERMAN TRANSLATOR IN ARMY INTELLIGENCE, to help Dulles set up these secret networks. He personally "interrogated" many of the top Nazi prisoners held by the US Army, who were absorbed into the CIA-BND. (see: The CIAs worst kept secret, by M. Lee, under Archived article "Nazi echo" at http://www.consortiumnews.com ) In 1952 Dulles ordered SS comando Skorzeny to bring 200 Nazis to Egypt as military advisors to Abdul Nasser in his war with Israel (see: Postwar Arab links to the ODESSA network, at http://www.fantompowa.net/Flame/nazis_postwar_egypt.htm ).
DULLES BEGAN THE CIA POLICY OF COUP D'ETATS, IN WHICH DEMOCRATIC GOVERNMENTS WERE REPLACED BY MILITARY DICTATORSHIPS. as follows:
-----1953, IRAN: President Mossadegh overthrown by the pro-nazi Shah Pahlavi, who kills and tortures thousands and opens Irans' oilfields to Rockefellers' EXXON corp.
-----1954, GUATEMALA: President Arbenz overthrown by the military, which by 1989 killed 200,000 Mayan Indians. To protect assets of United Fruit co.(Chiquita Bananas). Dulles was a director.
-----1961, ECUADOR: Pres. Arosemana overthrown
-----1961-64, BRAZIL: Pres. Joao Gaulart overthrown
-----1961-65, CONGO: Pres. Lumumba overthrown by Mobutu, who rules corruptly for 32 years and gives 10,000 square miles to OTRAG, a German rocket company run by former Nazi scientists.
-----1963, USA: President JF Kenneddy assassinated; John McCloy and Allen Dulles,(who JFK had fired as CIA director), "serve" on the Warren Commission, which claims there was no conspiracy involved. Lyndon Johnson reverses Kennedy's order to withdraw troops from Vietnam.
-----1963-65, DOMINICAN REPUBLIC: Pres.Bosch ousted
-----1965, INDONESIA: President Sukarno overthrown by Gen. Suharto, who led a massacre (CIA assisted)of up to 1 million Indonesians and ran concentration camps with over 750,000 prisoners whose arms were tatooed with letters. He opened Indonesias' oilfields to Rockefellers EXXON, Mobil and Chevron co's. Rockefellers' Goodyear Tire co. made use of Suhartos' slave labor camps.
-----1965-67, GREECE: Pres. Papandreous overthrown
-----1971, BOLIVIA: President Torres overthrown by Gen. Banzer, who tortures and kills thousands with the help of Nazi war criminal Klaus Barbie. Barbie runs the major cocaine ring known as AMADEUS, a lucrative CIA operation. In 1983 he is extradited to France for his war crimes trial.
-----1973, September 11, CHILE: President Allende overthrown by Gen. Pinochet in a bloody coup in which 3000 Chileans are massacred. The Rockefellers' ITT corp., now run by John McCloy, donates $1 million to the coup effort, which is orchestrated by Henry Kissinger.(source: Rogue State, by William Blum)
.......1976-OPERATION CONDOR, SOUTH AMERICAN ASSASSINATION CARTEL, THE YEAR GEORGE BUSH SR. IS CIA DIRECTOR. In 1976, Nelson Rockefeller was Vice President (to Ford), and his advisor Henry Kissinger was Secretary of State. In this year Kissinger's puppet dictator Pinochet, of Chile, organised Operation CONDOR, to co-ordinate death squad assassinations by the secret police of the dictators of Chile, Brasil, Argentina, Uruguay, and Paraguay . 30,000 leftists were assassinated/ executed/ "disappeared". Former Chilean ambassador Orlando Letelier was car bombed in Washington DC by Chilean agents. Operation CONDOR was based out of a bizarre Nazi colony in Chile known as COLONIA DIGNIDAD, whose founder is wanted in Germany for kidnapping and molesting young boys. Colonia Dignidad was used by Pinochets team to train for the 1973 coup d'etat, and then served as a torture center where prisoners were "disappeared". Many of the top ranking Nazi war criminals in South America are believed to have lived in Colonia Dignidad. In 1993 a cache of documents called the "ARCHIVES OF TERROR" was found in Paraguay detailing Nazi war criminal involvement in Operation Condor, and listing victims, including Israeli agents who were trying to find Nazis to bring to trial. It is highly probable that George Bush sr and Henry Kissinger knew about, and directed, Operation CONDOR. General Pinochet was never ashamed of his pro-Nazi fetish, preferring Nazi uniforms and marching music. In 1985 an American professor, Boris Weisfeiler, was disappeared at Colonia Dignidad. Today Dignidad is a prospering commune valued at $5 billion, but closed to the public and protected by the Chilean military. Today David Rockefeller is the scion of his families' empire, running Chase-Manhattan Bank, the Trilateral Commission, the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), and Rockefeller Center, NYC. Kissinger was Bush jrs choice to head the September 11th investigation. Paul Bremer III, former Director of Kissinger Associates, was Bush's appointed ruler of Iraq. (Sources: Operation Condor, Virtual Truth Commission: http://www.geocities.com/~virtualtruth/condor.htm
---Operation Condor and Pinochet, by Lucy Komisar, LA Times, Nov.1, 1998.
--- Chile, declassified US documents on Pinochet and the 1973 coup, P. Kornbluh, National Security Archive.
---CIA compiled Indonesian Death Lists in 1965, by K.Kadane-
http://www.namebase.org/kadane/html
Here's my question:
WHY THE HELL WEREN'T YOU OVER ON INDUSTRIAL CONFRONTING BUSH?!!!
It was a party of SIX NAZIS. SIX. They stand around chanting with signs, and occasionally attack a synagogue. Bush, on the other hand, is responsible for the mounting tide of blood in the middle east. I saw about two anarchists over at the plant.
It's time we got our priorities straight.
WHY THE HELL WEREN'T YOU OVER ON INDUSTRIAL CONFRONTING BUSH?!!!
It was a party of SIX NAZIS. SIX. They stand around chanting with signs, and occasionally attack a synagogue. Bush, on the other hand, is responsible for the mounting tide of blood in the middle east. I saw about two anarchists over at the plant.
It's time we got our priorities straight.
If you KNOW the Neo-NAZIs are going to be rallying, and you have advance notice when and where, get your permits, and hold an actual rally against them, in the legal manner, wherein the police can't send you away unless you get stupid.
Mock them. Chant against them. Have a stand up comedian on hand to give them a good roasting. Whatever.
Violence will only hurt your agenda, though, as it makes the NAZIs the victims, and you folks the victimizers. It also makes you bigots.
Yeah... I know... "I'm no bigot! I'm against those bigoted bastards! I have no tolerance for them!"
From the American Heritage Dictionary:
"Bigot
NOUN:
One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ."
Intolerant of those who differ. That's the defining factor.
Be careful of the dragons you fight, and the abyss you stare too long into. Nietzche had it right.
Oh... and the thing with freedom of speech is that it includes speech you don't like. Just as you're free to speak your peace, they are as well.
Mock them. Chant against them. Have a stand up comedian on hand to give them a good roasting. Whatever.
Violence will only hurt your agenda, though, as it makes the NAZIs the victims, and you folks the victimizers. It also makes you bigots.
Yeah... I know... "I'm no bigot! I'm against those bigoted bastards! I have no tolerance for them!"
From the American Heritage Dictionary:
"Bigot
NOUN:
One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ."
Intolerant of those who differ. That's the defining factor.
Be careful of the dragons you fight, and the abyss you stare too long into. Nietzche had it right.
Oh... and the thing with freedom of speech is that it includes speech you don't like. Just as you're free to speak your peace, they are as well.
you sound like a patronizing cop
so you are proposing that we allow you to infringe with their civil rights to free speach.
I just remember how whiney this group gets when they are infringed in any minor way.
so let's do unto others as you would have others do unto you.
I just remember how whiney this group gets when they are infringed in any minor way.
so let's do unto others as you would have others do unto you.
That doesn't sound like something Bozwell would say.
C Baize made the most sense of any of these postings. Showing up where Nazis are to kick ass is being no better than they are. If you think it's important enough(personally I think these jokers should be ignored) but if you think it's important enough, show up and counter their hate speech with your own speech. Chasing them away and violently intimidating them does nothing but help their cause in the end.
Tell that to the Jews who survived the Holocaust by killing their guards and burning Treblinka.
TAKE THAT NAZI SCUM. YOU BLACK HATERS GOT WHAT WAS COMMING TO YOU. TAKE YOUR CRAP BACK TO HITLER'S PALACE YOU MURDERS!
THESE BASTARD WILL START WWIII IF WE DON'T KEEP THE PRESSURE ON THEM. I WISH THEY BAN NAZISM IN THIS COUNTRY! BLACK AND WHITE POWER UNITED!!!
THESE BASTARD WILL START WWIII IF WE DON'T KEEP THE PRESSURE ON THEM. I WISH THEY BAN NAZISM IN THIS COUNTRY! BLACK AND WHITE POWER UNITED!!!
Damn straight, man! That's the only way either of us will OVERCOME!
The National Socialist Movement is spreading all over the U.S. and several foreign countries as well. NSM welcomes counter-protesters, especially minority races, because it enhances the media coverage expotentially. The NSM loves it when counter-protesters use violence, set things on fire, throw rocks and bottles, and ESPECIALLY loves it when counter-protesters get into a big fight with the police. It is just a matter of time until an NSM member is seriously injured or killed at one of their demonstrations. That will REALLY throw gas on the fire. Nothing like a White martyr to spur on the cause.
The goal is at least one demonstration that makes the national news every month. Every time the ARA, or SHARP or whatever other anti-racist or anti-fascist group shows up acts aggressively and violently, NSM gets several hundred members. The NSM HQ in Minneapolis is reportedly six weeks behind on new membership applications since the demonstration in Toledo, Ohio. "Everywhere they go, everywhere they grow."
They have opened NINE new units in less than six weeks.
Keep up the good work, LOL.
The goal is at least one demonstration that makes the national news every month. Every time the ARA, or SHARP or whatever other anti-racist or anti-fascist group shows up acts aggressively and violently, NSM gets several hundred members. The NSM HQ in Minneapolis is reportedly six weeks behind on new membership applications since the demonstration in Toledo, Ohio. "Everywhere they go, everywhere they grow."
They have opened NINE new units in less than six weeks.
Keep up the good work, LOL.
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