Camejo Had Command Performance In Debates

"George Washington was just a kid when he chopped down that tree, but if they locked him up for that now where would this country be."

You said "Camejo is a bright spirited man unafraid to expose the truth."

I say - "the truth as YOU define it, not reality. Besides, Camejo recently moved to ultra-conservative Folsom, just outside Sacramento, and has started his transformation into a normal person"

Enjoy

"Camejo recently moved to ultra-conservative Folsom"

Oh, so now if you move to a conservative area you're all wrong.

This is called trying to attack the left on inane details that are senseless.

Yes the Greens are watered down capitalists, but look at what they're doing - something. Many are doing nothing, or choosing to stick with whatever is 'safe' or simply to hide from any news.

There have been huge gains for the Greens in this election. Are the Greens perfect? No. Is the revolution happening tomorrow? No. So in the mean time the Greens are making small steps to lead to change.

Peter has been great throughout this election and a lot people - like me - are really proud of how he's handled himself. Would we like him to do more? Yes. I for one wanted him to mention the other parties and candidates who did not make the debates or get the media. He really didn't. But he did a LOT as it is.

Remember, the Greens are all volunteer and take no corporate donations. It's amazing to get as far as we have, and to have found someone like Peter who is as funny and intelligent and compassionate as he is.

I voted for him - absentee, so it counts in this rotten county with no paper trail.

I missed Saturday's debate. I appreciated the week before in the debate that Schwarz attended, that Peter pointed out who were the "illegal" people on this continent. He does not use the term illegal immigrants, and pointed out that the ancestors of Mexican immigrants were on this continent long before the Europeans. Thank you Peter.

I will proudly vote for Camejo on Tuesday. For those who feel Camejo does not understand the problem of capitalism I would offer this:

Peter Camejo was the Socialist candidate for president in 1972 (I think the date is right). In the last Governor race Peter was asked how his position has changed since then. He responded that his position has not changed.

Within the Green party there is a strong socialist minority. The party recognizes that minority opinions may someday be a majority opinion and does not try to silence any voices within their ranks. That is why we continue to grow. We are unlike most other parties in that our people are never asked to compromise personal values in order to present a lock step front.

We got this far on consensus and strong majority. Even the mighty oak tree was once just a nut that stood its ground. Let Peter earn your vote and join us in shaping our platform!

It's a fact that voting Green is a wasted vote. Yes, you may have gains... so what? It's like being behind by 40 points in a football game and scoring a field goal with 10 seconds to go. You'll feeeeeeel a bit better...but still lose. Peter is a good guy, (for a Socialist) and I wish him well. Just like the team that is behind by 40 points, afterwards you say to them "good game" to the losers. There are a few things right about what he says.... but... so many more things that are vile and wrong. Sure, call me names if you want, but the fact is the vast majority of the population agrees with me, and unless you get a green monarchy to overthrow the government you will continue to languish in near last place. Cheer up though, there are over 100 candidates you will beat and for that you will claim "success"!

It's a fact that voting Green is a wasted vote. Yes, you may have gains... so what? It's like being behind by 40 points in a football game and scoring a field goal with 10 seconds to go. You'll feeeeeeel a bit better...but still lose. Peter is a good guy, (for a Socialist) and I wish him well. Just like the team that is behind by 40 points, afterwards you say to them "good game" to the losers. There are a few things right about what he says.... but... so many more things that are vile and wrong. Sure, call me names if you want, but the fact is the vast majority of the population agrees with me, and unless you get a green monarchy to overthrow the government you will continue to languish in near last place. Cheer up though, there are over 100 candidates you will beat and for that you will claim "success"!

Well, I have no desire to insult you or call you mean names. I'll leave that to the agent provocateurs. I would respectfully argue that even in the two party system we have in the USA there is still an impact by third parties. Don't quote me but I think Greens now hold over 170 local offices. That is a real impact in real American lives, not just a nice platform without a foundation.

In a historical sense, on the national level, when third parties reach a critical mass the other two parties tend to steal the key parts of the third party's platform. As an example, this occurred in the early 1900s when the socialists were calling for shorter work weeks and child labor laws (to stop coal industry exploitation of kids) they began to draw a large percentage of the national vote. In the following election the Republican party stole the platform and won the election. The socialist vote dropped back down to 2 or 3 % but the ideas became reality. Perhaps this year the Green vote will hit that critical mass and the Dems will steal our platform. They might not and so the Greens will continue to grow. The big parties can only ignore the people for so long.

You said "The big parties can only ignore the people for so long."

I say:
Where the heck do you think the "big parties" are ignoring the people???? Arnold's campaign is one of the most populist campaigns around! JUST because the platform does not coincide with yours does NOT mean any of the big parties are not doing America's mainstream desires. (actually Arnold is a special case and I don't want to go there in this thread)
For instance..... the majority of Amercians feel in their heart the Iraqi war is just and proper. But I bet most of Indy's ultra-left Berkeley-ites (and all Greenies) think otherwise. Therefore all the "progressives" get in a huff and feels all of "the people" are behind them and think the Republicans and Democrats are out to do their greedy-oil-thing. That conclusion is patently false. The anti-capitalists on this board get into a schitzoid rage and are convinced they are right. The one good thing it DOES accomplish is to create debate and further analysis. That is why I enjoy Camejo, he is literate - yet wrong! it makes it fun!
Thanks Dave for keeping your comments civil and not attacking. That allows me to respect you (whilst disagreeing). That breeds healthy discussions and deeper discussions. Like "who put the bop in the bop shue bop?" and things like that.
Hey...who WAS that man.....
Oh.... another thing.... third party platforms do not (generally) cause their agenda to be absorbed into one of the parties. It usually causes the loss of a similar (or nearest) party's platform. Look at the last two presidential elections! Nader killed Gore and before that Ross Perot screwed up everyone! Sorry to inform you.... but the conservatives have been making TRUE gains, in the White House, in Congress and at the State level. Actual numbers. Factual.... REALITY

He also said brown man. I wrote it in a hurry from memory. He may live in a conservative neighborhood, but the man had style and courage! He spoke of issues we never hear about. He deserves some press!

You don't hear about those issues because not very many people really care about them at all. Camejo moved to California as a radical socialist. He and his kind do not deserve much press. He's a smart guy and he lives around the corner from me, but his values are anti-American and just plain wrong. He, and his followers are getting worse and worse showing in the polls - in the latest, heavily trafficed election he got almost half the percentage that he got in the previous election just last year! That is even WITH the publicized debates on TV. Perhaps nearly all the sane people disagree with him. He and his kind are fading into laughability. Perhaps in the future he can debate with the ferret candidate with a megaphone in a park in San Fran.

Wow, Alfred doesn't have a clue.

So Alfred, why don't you explain what other values you consider to be 'Anti-American'? You wouldn't happen to be a white male, are you Alfred? A Republicon?

As for the polling numbers, you have to actually think about it Alfred - might be a problem for you - because in the last election, neither candidate was featured on Oprah, Jay Leno, Nightline, and every other news program in existance where people who are in media will make money if Groper wins.

The media spectacle of this election drew numbers away from both Dems and Greens - if you actually look at the numbers, the Greens did better than the Dems as far as staying afloat compared to last year against a media super-nova.

But go ahead, explain what other values you consider to be anti-American. I happen to be one, and most likely, I consider you to be the problem, not me. But go ahead, change my mind.

YOU SAID "Wow, Alfred doesn't have a clue. "

I SAY"In your opinion only!"


YOU SAID" So Alfred, why don't you explain what other values you consider to be 'Anti-American'? You wouldn't happen to be a white male, are you Alfred? A Republicon?

I SAY "Hey - you happen to be wrong again.! I am black (from Syracuse originally, if you can believe that!!!). Oh - I am a man - does that mean you can claim victory!? I am not a registered Republican either. I expect you to even disagree with me on that, but it just happens to be true. What the hell does color/gender have to do with all this? Actually, I resent your accusation and implications. Answer this if you can...Just how immature are you?


YOU SAID "As for the polling numbers, you have to actually think about it Alfred - might be a problem for you - because in the last election, neither candidate was featured on Oprah, Jay Leno, Nightline, and every other news program in existance where people who are in media will make money if Groper wins."

I SAY "Your character assassination attempts are not appreciated - I will be forced to retalliate (later, at the end)! This thread is about Camejo's debating performance, not Ahhhnold. Camejo has appeared on more debates and had MORE TV time than he has ever had a chance to, before this election. His poll numbers dropped to where his percentage from this election was less than his previous elections. When he moved to California he was the failed head of the Socialist Workers Party. His numbers have not risen above where anyone could state there has been any cross-over votes. In essence, he has convinced NOBODY with his message and has, because of this, created a net loss for the Greens. I doubt if anyone will agree with you that Camejo's tiny numbers were the result of not being on Oprah! LOLOL, I find the inference rather humerous. The problem for you, Fred, is that I (and the general electorate) HAVE a clue!


YOU SAID "The media spectacle of this election drew numbers away from both Dems and Greens - if you actually look at the numbers, the Greens did better than the Dems as far as staying afloat compared to last year against a media super-nova".

I SAY "You attempt at showing "success" is like Japan saying they won WW2. I know you wont get over the crushing defeat, but try."


YOU SAID "But go ahead, explain what other values you consider to be anti-American. I happen to be one, and most likely, I consider you to be the problem, not me. But go ahead, change my mind."

I SAY "I can't change what you don't have! (told you I'd pay you back!). Leaving sophomoric comments aside, you ultra-left-wingers hate Arnold because he has the courage to stand up to special interests and restore fiscal responsibility - rather than give handouts to individuals. The population of California came out in droves BECAUSE of that message. That is why the minority candidates percentages really went down (that should have been your response!). The Greens voted Green, they always do, but there were less percentagewise due to the heavy turnout. The message is clear..... most of the people in California are fed up with the crap you say - you just hate it so bad that you seek some semblence of success. You lost because more people think opposite you do. It is nothing to do anything else. As long as the vast majority of people disagree with YOUR message, you will continue to languish in near last place. We are your problem TRUE! And most people love that fact!