Flashpoints Radio June 3: Edward Said; Angana Chatterji : Indybay

KPFA Flashpoints Radio

Under The Nuclear Shadow, by Arundhati Roy (link2), "Many call me in Delhi. 'Why are you still here,' they ask, 'why haven't you left the city? Isn't nuclear war a real possibility?' It is, but where shall I go? If I go away and everything and every one, every friend, every tree, every home, every dog, squirrel and bird that I have known and loved is incinerated, how shall I live on? Who shall I love, and who will love me back?" (source)

Monday, June 3, 2002 - Start Audio

-00:00 Dennis Bernstein: introduction:
-00:48 now with

Robert Knight and the Knight Report.. Robert: India and Pakistan refuse to talk.. Israel began construction of a 1000 illegal homes in Arab East Jersalem.. 9 more Pals killed over the weekend and 400 arrested.. in Balata Camp, Israeli forces are rounding up members of International Solidarity under the pretext that they are in danger from the Palestine.. report from one international inside Balata, Cleva Butterly: eyewitness to atrocities.. women and children locked in one room for days at time, held hostage by Isreali forces.. other atrocities.. a nine year old girl and her ten year old brother badly wounded.. the ambulances blocked from coming in

-05:55 Dennis: now with leading Palestinian spokeperson and scholar (Colombia University), and prolific author (archive) of, among other works, 'Orientalism', and 'Blaming the Victim', "Dr

Dr. Edward Said: about Mr. Tyler.. the Israelis have done everything they can do to block a peace agreement with the Palestinians.. the Oslo process had no goal.. the essential issue is the occupation of Palestinian land by the Israelis, and the continued building of settlements on it.. until US pressures Israel to end the occupation there will be no peace.. I don't think Bush has a vision of peace.. about the debate in the Bush administration.. Israel in violation of very relevant international law.. US gives Israel $5 million a year.. Bush has to make Israel get out or nothing will happen.. Dennis: a one state solution?.. Dr. Said: the people on Palestinian land are only soldiers and settlers.. the proximity and common history of the Jews and Palestinians demands a one state solution.. the Pals are perfect partners for the Israelis, not a conquered people.. two agendas for reform.. in direct conflict.. one: an Israeli/US agenda to reform the Palestinian to protect Isreal.. two: a democratic Palestinian agenda, and to sideline Arafat.. he has made a mess of government.. to expect him at the age of 75.. all he thinks about is his own security.. very soon Palestinians will have elections of their choosing.. without Arafat, without US and Israel.. Arafat is begging every respected Palestinian to join his government.. no one will serve.. he is desperate, he will bring in anybody.. about his enormous failure.. to provide schools, clinics.. he abandoned his people.. Arafat provoked Sharon and abandoned his people.. nobody trusts him anymore for that reason.. he is not a leader who cares about his people, he cares only about himself.. everything has been destroyed by the Israelis.. but the services continue to function.. not because of Arafat, but because of the Palestinian people.. an organic society.. Arafat practicially going out in the street and begging everyone to join his silly governement.. Sharon is a delusional, homicidal war criminal.. like, but a great deal more savage and cruel, the Africaneers in South Africa.. people are going to resist, unless he manages to drive out all the Pals, or kill them all.. but he will lose, just like South Africa did.. Europe has turned against Israel, so has Africa, South America.. Israel hanging on due to the Zionist lobby in America.. nothing could be more unwise.. in the end people will come to their senses.. who understand the madness.. Dennis: the UN, AI, other human rights groups dropping the ball on the atrocities committed in Jenin, and the other continuing invasions.. Dr. Said: Kofi Annon a creature of the US.. but there are thousands of reports, the truth will come out.. Dr. Said: American Zionism may be the biggest obstacle to peace.. US policy.. Carl McCall running for governor of NY went to an Israel and fired an 'M16'.. and the fundamentalist Christians.. so skewed and crazy their vision.. McCall fired an M16 from an illegal settlement on expropriated Pal land at a 'terrorist', and then comes back and says he has proved he is a friend of the Jews.. a real problem.. but a much overrated problem.. if their were a concerted effort by Arab-Americans to take their case to the American people, the fundamentalist right would crumble.. .. there has been a tremendously distortion history.. the myth that Palestine was devoid of people before the Zionists came.. the myth of the belligerance of the Arabs.. and on and on.. even now, the kids who only have stones to throw at tanks, and the Isreali kids in the giant tanks firing endless rounds of heavy machine gun fire at unarmed civilians, and the Palestinians are the ones seen as the fanatics.. we Palestinians are the most stubborn people on earth.. all these kids are, are citizen soldiers, not even soldiers, but just people defending their homes as best they can.. Sharon will bleed a lot of lives, destroy a lot of buildings.. but the spirit of the Palestinians has not retreated a bit.. in the end we will have our self-determination

-35:10 music break Michael Franti.. Every single soul is a poem written on the back of God's palm
-36:10 Dennis: a million soldiers face

off over the 'line of control' in Kashmir.. but India and Pakistan talking war talk.. now w Dr. Angana Chatterji, native of India, and "chatterji"

Professor of Anthropology at the California Institute of Integral Studies.. Professor Chatterji: India needs to take more responsibility.. Pakistan needs to democraticize.. I am terrified as a Hindu.. We condemn the killing of Hindu by the Muslims.. then thousands of Hindus went on a rampage, killing 1,500 Muslims.. but the police were complicit in this as well.. some told Muslims, here go hide in this warehouse.. then when the warehouse was full, it was torched.. I wrote an article, India/ Pakistan, Mourning This Time.. I received yesterday 50 emails saying I am a traitor.. a Hindu woman was beated to death for defending a Muslim friend.. Indian Societies in the US funding right wing Hindus in India.. there are training camps operated by Hindu fundamentalists.. training kids to take over India.. about Gandhi.. about the special responsibility of India.. a primer on Kashmir.. Dr. Chatterji: every American citizen is a global citizen, and America has to take a leading role in creating world peace.. about the Cold War, and its effect on Pakistan and Israel.. we have to unlearn terrorism.. we need a plan for the next 10 years, how to get Kashmir to where it needs to be.. Dennis: what can Americans do?.. Dr. Chatterji: ask for an ethical leadership.. I am afraid Kashmir is becoming what Palestine is becoming.. they feel disposed, no option but take up arms, or leave.. but neither option will be allowed by the the surrounding powers.. the US can not let the arms race escalate in SouthEast Asia.. hopefully US citizens will show greater voice and change their government policy.. look into the causes of post 9/11 extremism..
-56:28 End today's show. today's review by john lionheart

Friday, May 31, 2002 - Start Audio

-00:00 Dennis Bernstein: introduction: Israeli military terrorists invade Nablus and Balata Camp, interviews with Neta Golan and Starhawk, interview with Jeff Halper about the Israeli demolition of Palestinian homes, Harvard commencement speech titled 'American Jihad', draws fire
-00:57 Dennis: Amnesty International

said Israel in 2001 committed 32 extrajudicial killings.. and killed 79 children.. not including the recent invasions and massacres, and the destruction of Jenin.. also widespread police brutality and torture.. with US made tanks and Apache homicide helicopters.. now w Neta Golan of "Neta

International Solidarity Movement in Balata Camp.. Neta: I am here in Balata Camp with Starhawk.. the army invaded the camp again today.. called the men to come out.. rounded up all the males ages 15 to 60.. took them away.. but they also took younger and older men.. handcuffed them.. as the sun was setting.. an ambulance ahead of us.. a tank opened fire with a machine gun at the ambulance.. one person killed this morning, three wounded, one a little girl, another a woman shot while her husband was being arrested.. not an ambulance in sight.. no men left in the camp.. except the old, sick, and *uncompliant* (who are in a lot of danger).. some arrested have been released already but told not to come back to the camp for three days.. the military intends to conduct house to house searches.. these refugees have suffered so much.. the women and children left here are terrified.. soldiers, tanks, shooting everywhere.. through it all they are being incredibly hospitable to us.. maintaining their dignity and beauty, a most wonderful people.. I am motivated by love for these beautiful people.. for the Pals *and* the activists.. I am exhausted.. but once I met these people who have come from all over the world, gives me strength.. if things continue, it will be very very bad.. already very bad.. occupation spreading this disease of racism.. viewing all Arabs as terrorists.. putting us all in a lot of danger.. this is the road our government wants to take us down.. if citizens, people don't get up and stop it, there may be dark future for all our children.. for everyone, for Jews, Arabs, Americans, everyone.. as a Jew I am aware of the immorality of silence.. I want to do everything I can do to stop these atrocities..
-09:40 Dennis: now w Starhawk, new age activist from California,

with Neta in Balata Camp.. Starhawk: here heavy shelling, homes demolished, all the men rounded up and

arrested.. I'm here to provide protection, moral support for the women remaining, and stop the violence.. the closures, the curfews, the martial law.. [all that institutional violence] has now become almost normalized.. no normal life left.. Dennis: you had to walk past tanks to get in?.. Starhawk: I'm a Jew, I came to work out this whole Jew/Arab thing.. I didn't realize the engrained prejudice in myself until I came here.. what would my mom say?.. me here in a Palestinian refugee camp.. but the people here have been so warm, so lovely to us.. when we came in, it was deathly quiet.. then people started peeking out.. came out on their balconies, smiling at us, waving, inviting us in.. such warmth and happiness, it was almost overwhelming.. about the tank firing at the ambulance (or at us?).. it was getting dark, we were taken into peoples' homes who were glad to see us.. one woman, alone with her children.. so sweet, fed us dinner.. the kids beaming and smiling.. they said they were terrified and greatly appreciated us being there.. Dennis: we're called 'self-hating Jews'.. Starhawk: A lot of us are here *because* we are Jews.. I think the ultimate self-hating Jew is a person who can't look at the situation here and the occupation, and see the truth.. the rule of apartheid.. I thought that apartheid was an exageration until I came here.. like having a checkpoint between SF and Berkeley, and if you were a person of color you had to stop and have your papers examined, and half the time they wouldn't let you pass.. and all the hospitals and your work was in SF.. Israeli cellphones don't work in Palestine, Palestinian cellphones don't work in Israel.. two separate realities.. as a Jew, easy and comfortable to stay in that bubble of safety in Israel.. but we have to live morally.. the dream of a homeland for us, entertwined with the dream of the Palestinians for their own homeland too.
-17:40 music break
-19:00 Dennis: now to Jerusalem with Jeff Halper of the Committee Against House Demolitions..

Jeff: the Committee founded about 6 years ago, when Oslo started to fall apart.. "jeff

during Oslo Israel doubled the number of settlers, build more roads, uprooted thousands of olive trees.. the occupation was being strenghtened.. demolished 9,000 homes.. an attempt to confine Pals to little islands in the West Bank.. to leave most of the territory to Israel.. to make life unbearable for the Pals so they would flee.. a silent 'transfer'.. end result, a displacement of the Pals, foreclosing any possibility of a viable Palestinian state.. Jeff: about the Committee: we rebuild, block bulldozers.. Israel is not fighting to defend itself against terrorism but fighting to defend their illegal immoral occupation.. all kinds of mechanisms to prevent Pals from building on their own land.. land is stolen to build settlements.. in Jerusalem they take the land of Palestinians and call it 'open green space'.. important for Israel to have legal facade.. if Pals do build the Israelis show up and demolish the home.. about the Israel civil administration.. demolition orders.. the Pals can appeal to the courts, but very expensive, costs thousands.. and the thing is all sown up anyway.. 90% of the time you lose in court.. bulldozers demolish the house. between 3,000 and 4,000 houses under demolition orders.. but Israel can demolish only 150 houses a year.. to spread the fear, the demolitions are *randomized*.. thousands of families live in fear and anxiety.. the bulldozers can show up any time, of any day.. they are given 15 minutes to take everything out of their houses.. some men

have quit their jobs to stay home to be forever protecting their homes.. for the children I can't believe the trauma.. see their parents beaten up or shot, see their homes and belongings destroyed.. and an hour later the bulldozers leave.. this has happened to 50,000 people.. all done 'legally'.. the Israeli goal: sees the whole area as one intregal country.. even in the brightest days of Oslo, they never saw the Pals having a viable state.. transfer is a polite term for 'ethnic cleansing'.. a popular idea now in Israel.. do it by impoverishing the population.. the whole West Bank and Gaza, one big prison.. the army terrorizes the population.. destroys houses.. to push the Pals to accept the occupation, to accept living in little tiny islands.. to push out the middle class.. the educated and especially the Christians.. they leave the poor, the working class behind, very easy to control.. Israel prefers to use administrative means, rather than military means, to avoid criticism.. a very high tech, almost totalitarian control.. Dennis: Israeli radio trying to ban the word 'settler' or 'settlement'.. Jeff: we live in 'NewsSpeak'.. even most Israelis don't really know the truth.. anymore than Americans.. how does a democracy tolerate ethnic cleansing?.. example: Israel conducts assassinations, but they're now called 'targeted preventions'.. you can do that kind of policy, it

sounds ok.. about the rubric of 'defensive shield'.. and the term 'settlement' being sanitized.. and 'occupation' now called 'administration'.. international law protects occupied territories from settlement.. this NewSpeak is to avoid the 4th Geneva Convention.. a legal democratic facade to the occupation.. to avoid accountability for war crimes.. the implications are deep for the use of these terms.. 130,000 housing units in the West Bank.. living on Palestinian land.. to prevent any form of Palestinian self-rule.. heavily armed.. begin as military bases.. extremely high level of settler violence.. Palestinians fields are burned, Pals murdered.. but when Pals attack settlements the victims are *humanized*.. for example, recently one settler killed a Palestinian kid by kicking him in the head.. the settler got off scott free in court.. and they're protected by the army.. one population has an army, the other nothing.. why do they call it 'civil administration'.. *NewSpeak* again.. about the 'planners'.. the whole bureaucracy is settlers.. a tragic and oppressive situation.. absolute rule over the Palestinians.. Dennis: when a house is demolished where do the Pals go?.. Jeff: the Red Cross will sometimes give them a tent.. but the family is fined $10,000.. and billed for the 'cost' of the demolition.. crushing blows.. about how women lose twice.. about millions of people living in fear and in terror.. and no one is looking.. or speaking out.. more info see: www.ICAHD.org
-47:30 Dennis: a proposed

graduation speech titled 'American Jihad' at Harvard University draws controversy.. now with the chosen speaker, Ziad Yassan (sp?).. Ziad: about the real meaning of 'Jihad' (struggle).. the meaning being hijacked and attacked.. 'Jihad' means a struggle with oneself, to do the moral thing [like 'Dharma' finding one's right or moral course, like 'right living'].. the biggest misconception is that Jihad means killing innocent civilians.. Dennis: is there racism at play here? Ziad: some criticism is intellectual, some more kneejerk because I am a Muslim.. I received one death threat.. response directed more about me than to me.. about a petition online to remove me as commencement speaker.. Harvard administration has been very supportive towards me.. I will be the speaker..
-55:00 Dennis: poetry moment: Antonio Portia (sp?), an itenerant carpenter from Italy: you think you are killing me, you are committing suicide
-56:11 End today's show. today's review by john lionheart

Flashpoints Radio June 3: Edward Said; Angana Chatterji

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